Mark Cumnock
Weight? 176-180 lbs
Height? 6' 1"
How old are you? …..39
Where did you grow up? The big town of Spring City, TN pop. 2100 salute!
Personal Taste:
Do you prefer more or less rocker for a creeker? Why?
I prefer less. I can catch the eddy, by reading water; I can't bust a hole, if I don't have any hull speed. I hate holes, well on Saturday night I don't, but that's a whole different subject. I love to blast in and carve out of eddys I think a flatter boat helps with this. I paddle an old school plastic Reflex on our easy runs here just for the speed of catching and leaving eddys.
Any major changes for creekboats of the future, design related?
I am hoping for a little longer boat, a boat with less displacement. Would like to see a new school deck married to an old school planing hull mixed into a displacement hull. I really think it can be done with some fore thought. Speed kills unless your creekin. Would also love to see all the outfitting improvements in just one boat, with a cross-linked or HTP blow-molded material hull.
What rescue equipment. do you carry?
When Creekin' I carry a folding saw, to help clean some of the runs, and for just in case, I also carry pulleys and webbing for a Z-drag. A throw bag in the boat mounted between my legs so I can get to it quick, a waist throw bag for me. A handful of biners, a 3 piece Werner breakdown paddle. A small Watershed drybag, for a first aid kit, with matches, lighter, cell phone, small flashlight and two space blankets, a magnesium firestarter, toilet paper! with a MRE meal and a water bottle with a built in filter, and last a photocopied page from the topo map of the run. You paddle Coon or Allen's, and put on late, you learn the hard way. I also use float bags to strengthen the boat. Mini cell walls can pop if stressed, I also learned that the hard way with my video boat where I cut the walls down.
Would you consider wearing a full face helmet? (Cage or FNA style) Why or why not?
I think the full face is a great idea, would like to also see an attachment design that you could put on for certain rapids. Asleep at the Wheel on Allen's Creek (GA) comes to mind. The cage, it doesn't look cool, even though that shouldn't matter, although no one wants to look like a goober. Speaking of that, I love seeing a cage set up on the Nanty when I take the kids, I love a good laugh. It's like they are "suitin up" for the run, and wearing nose plugs the whole trip, it makes me snicker when I see it. The full face looks hardcore. The SEDA Kevlar was and is one of my favorite open face designs; I can't wait to see someone get nailed in the ear wearing those playboater skateboard helmets. I say this because in the late 80's I broke my ear…..yeah didn't know you could do that??, neither did I …the cartilage on the outside the ear, where your ear curves on the outside got snapped, I was wearing a plastic Pro-Tec and I was only on the Ocoee. I was loopie for the rest of the run. I say it again I think a full face is an excellent idea I saw Risa get her face smacked on Gorilla at 200%, a full face would have helped, also John Rose from the Harriman Dagger days, got really nailed and has a permanent tattoo from his run on the Monkey. A full face would have taken care of that. A full face I think stacks the odds back in your favor, and there ain't nothing wrong with that.
Personal Preference: Bent Shaft or Straight, any reason why?
Without a doubt, Straight and wood with a carbon fiber overlay on a 45 with a slightly ovaled shaft. I can move my hands better, faster, and extend/slide for bracing quicker if needed, and helps me orient the set up position quicker when I need to roll. Bailey Johnson of Clinch River Paddles makes my paddles. I have them for years. No problem with them and still going strong. They also gave me a better "feel" when beating down off the Mountain. The another plus is that they keep your hands warm. Wood is good. When I'm too old to boat I will hang the paddles on the wall. He makes a work of art. If you maintain them, you will be giving them to your grand-children. I have two paddles, I will use one for a month, then refinish it, and have the other one for backup in case it rains and I have to go. Once a year I give them a major overhaul. All the true creeker glass sticks I see wind up being squirt sticks from all the wear, the wood epoxy blades have kept their same shape from day one.
Did you spend a lot of time outfitting a new boat or just make it fit. Can you describe some things that you take into consideration when outfitting a creeker?
In the old days it took me about 2 weeks to get one where I wanted it. (This time frame included working a full time job). Now I spend a lot of time on the thigh hooks, the boat manufactures thigh hooks for the public, and an aggressive thigh hook could land you in court. The second place I spent a lot of time now is the bulkhead. I like good contact points, to help transfer my energy to the water, and also for energy displacement if I piton. The new backbands are a God-Sent. In a sense, my old boats were death traps. The new outfitting has come a long way on making a boat safer. Even though I paddle easier water now I still try to custom fit my boats. I think it's fun to try to improve something that is already there also, and a better outfitted boat makes me a better boater.
What is you favorite creekboat design to date (or one of them)?
The M-3, but I'm in a Java as we speak. The Java is great, but the old school outfitting sucks, so I have installed a front ratchet set up, and totally gutted and redone the thigh hooks, and redone the bulkhead. I plan on keeping it until the hull almost wears out. If you see a Red and Purple Java at the next GAF sale, buyer beware. The M-3 reminds a "new and improved "Freefall LT" We pushed Dagger for something like the M-3 and all we got told was rodeo boats and touring kayaks were the sellers, no one was interested in Creek boats. I feel vindicated with all the creek boats on the market now. We used to take LT's, remove the guts and heat them up. And shrink them down a bit. My shrunk White LT that you see in Falling Off Walden' Ridge was an Abrams tank with an attitude. That boat would pearl just enough off a drop to help me line up for the next setup. I felt like I lost my brother when it got destroyed on the first Possum run, it didn't deserve what it got.
What was your favorite local hometown run?
Multiple runs on Johnnie's with a good group of friends, and nice warm spring day, with 3 set shuttles….Ahhhh, nirvana
What are five cities in the U.S. that you would live in strictly for Creeking purposes?
Chattanooga TN, Chattanooga TN, Chattanooga TN, Chattanooga TN, and Chattanooga TN, did I fail to mention Nooga? Nice place to be even if it's not raining. I miss it. Chattanooga is so centrally located, to so much good year round water, that is less than an hour, drive 2 hours and there is everything you can imagine. To me it's the perfect paddling town. The town is big enough to get what you need, and small enough to get around in.
Did you feel play boats have a place on creeks? Example: "Backyard" type creeks.
Only on backyard creeks, and ONLY the ones you have very dialed in, I say this because we were on Big Panther in GA. This guy shows up in a playboat. He squirted two strainers, and missed one must make eddy, he proved it wasn't a must make. It was getting to were if he pinned again I was thinking "Should I get him, or let him learn" it was getting hard to feel sorry for him. The next day we told him to meet us at the Chattooga, we went to Overflow. OOPS my bad…If it comes to only having a creekboat or playboat, it's a no brainer.
Creekin vs. Playboating:
Yeah right, you're kidding right? I think I have A.D.D. I get bored easy. Who wants to stay in one place all day? I don't understand the "Hell Hole mentality" at all. I like experiencing the whole river.I think creekers like pushing their own limits physically and mentally. I think playboaters are into the look-at-me mind set.
Did you prefer boating with boaters you know best or have boated with predominantly?
I would rather have boated with someone I trust and liked off the river. To me that's the best part boating. I remember a trip with Steve Smith on McGill. It was our second descent trip on it, with a lot of water, not a word was said, just river signals, and I could see in his eyes what was coming up, we would swap over probing rapids. Just checking up and going on. It is one of my best memories. We bombed that run , it was like dare-double dare with the two of us. We felt bullet proof that day. To me that's Creeking. When I boat with a group I don't know I am constantly worrying about them and me, it breaks my concentration.
Did you take bigger risks with these boaters?
Yes. If I know and trust them, and know they would do anything to get me and had the skills to do it. It always raised me up a notch. On another note, I also think it's rude to boat a nasty drop if you are with a group who is not comfortable with it. If it hits the fan they will be the one pulling you out. You can always come back with another group and knock it out.
Besides keeping their boat pointing downstream, what are the main differences between creekboaters and other genres?
I believe creekers are "Type A" personalities, driven in what they do. Accept life more for what it is. Especially someone who constantly boats Class V. It is a different mindset. "Well it was good while it lasted", but in the same breath can remain calm while it's hitting the fan, and pull a rabbit out of their hat. A great Creeker from a good Creeker I believe, is someone who has developed excellent water reading skills. He knows when to run it, he knows when to walk it, knows when he's having an off day and left the ego at home. When we were looking for a core group of guys, we wanted no one with an ego, it got in the way. Besides who wants to hang with someone who is an a-hole. There are enough of them in life to deal with already. I am boating a lot less harder stuff now, and I see the guys making some sic tricks, that leave me in awe in the playspots, get them on anything else and you can wear your arm out throwing ropes. Most of them can't even catch an eddy. It's a lot different today. The learning curve is quicker today, and it takes time to develop water reading skills. So in turn I think river running/reading skills for the mass paddling community is not what it was. But things change, the playboating skills are much better today. Also, I think creekers enjoy the whole river experience more per say than a playboater.
Is creekboating is past its "Golden Age" or do you feel there will be lots more pioneered, greater levels, and lots more athletes to take this to the next level.
Man, what a question. I think the golden age has past. But I think the next step in things, are sections that were left un-run. I think new ground can be broken on how high a drop has to be, including the gnar at the bottom, and the level. Now that the runs are getting dialed in ,and the lines have been figured out, higher levels will be run. I think its passing is not a bad thing either. We were learning the lines back in my day, now that the lines are figured out and open, creekers can go nail the run, and enjoy the creek and sicker lines. A good example is Vortex on Cain, it took awhile for us to figure that one out, now almost everybody is enjoying Vortex. I also strongly believe that Rodeo killed Creekin, and Creekin' is now just coming back to its own. The new paddlers will now be able to take it to the next level, now that rodeo is not distracting people.
To give you some perspective, Jim Little and I had heated debates with Dagger, and later myself with the old the Wave Sport when Chan was in charge when I paddled for them. They kept telling us that Rodeos sold boats. We were begging for a Creek openboat and improved Creek kayak. It fell on deaf ears. Think I mentioned that before, huh…It won't hurt my feelings to see the whole rodeo circuit pass away. I'm glad AW came to it's senses and got out of it. I feel Creeking is the true jist of this sport, and represents it in the best light. But on the new generation issue, I hate seeing where the sport is presently going with all the smack talk, also people taking a bad line, getting trashed, rolling up , and calling it all good. To me it's still all about bonding with friends who have the same interest and passion, and running a clean line whether its, Class II, Class III, Class IV or Class V. The best feeling for me is nailing my line and being rewarded, and seeing my buddy with a big smile on his face at the bottom of a drop. On the pioneering, there are first descents left but the easy fruit has been picked. But someone with desire and patience can find them. I still have one in mind and it is the backyard of Chattanooga. But for someone looking for an easy takeout and put in, they would not even notice it, the creek doesn't even have a name on the map. Another reason I love creekin'
Compared to the other forms of kayaking would you say that Creeking is more team oriented?
Yes. It is THE team sport. I think you feed off others, it was always nice when say paddling I was with Brian Collins and Mike Camp. I would look at a rapid, and know" this is perfect for Mike", and then see him nail it gave me a lot pleasure….. Definitely a team sport. Brian and I feed of each others skills too it was a Ying vs. Yang thing. Jim Little was another one, who saw what I saw in the runs, he would nod and I would go, and vice-versa. It's even fun when you get ragged by your buddies for screwing up on and off the river …it's all part of it.
How would you describe differences between East Coast and West Coast Creeking (word or paragraph) Which would you rather live in?
East Coast: I still think is more technical and you have to be in the "Be here now" concept due to so many runs being rain dependant
West Coast: More water, I hate more water….
What East Coast rapid that makes you really nervous, what's the first ones that pops in your head?
Gorilla on the Green at our old level (200%)
West Coast rapid that makes you really nervous, what's the first one that pops in your head?
I haven't boated out West enough for a fair comment, but Adrenaline Falls on Lime Creek comes to mind first.
What are some of the closest calls that you've had in your paddling career?
Hmmmm Ist to mind: I actually saw Jesus and had an outer body experience, while kayaking on the Laurel in KY. The run was in 89? during a big summer drought, The Laurel is damn controlled, the lake being down, exposed new rapids, it was way below the winter lake pool levels. I had a rock/undercut named after me. "Cumnock Rock" it's on river right near the end. I passed/blacked out while under that rock. Mark Saxon found me in the lake, he pulled me into his raft…I had some water in me etc…I was in a fog and very lethargic for about a 3 weeks…young and dumb, not smart enough to go to the doctor, Mark lead me around like a little kid until I got my senses back....well enough of that…..
2nd to mind Little Possum in 1993?, that was a toilet bowl flush run ,it was on our first attempt at a first descent. I was getting worked, making linked moves in a huge hole with my white Freefall LT, Brian Collins came thru, being flushed , nails me in the back, him hitting me knocked me out the boat. The only thing that saved me was a little hemlock limb, that I grabbed, when I grabbed it I surfed the limb like a ski rope, if not for the limb and Todd Gould being quick witted and having the sense that I wasn't in the group anymore, I would have swam the double drops. The double drops that day, were one rapid. I went to the hospital that night after a gimped up hike out. It was a very epic day, everyone had a story on that trip. We were surprised everyone made it to the takeout. No one boated to the takeout. I still wake up some nights thinking about it. 2 weeks later with my back wrapped up, we went back and completed the run.
Have you lost a close paddling partner to a whitewater accident? How would you say that it changed your scope on whitewater activities in general, Creeking, development?
No close paddling partners, but some of the people that I knew and have touched me are gone. I think your "Gone but not forgotten page" is a very kind act. I think of Jim Shepard who is on the list…… the last time I saw him we were laughing together at the GAF sale, I didn't get to say good bye. It brings it all back home when I see who is on your list. Bothers me that I know more than a couple on that list…. I'm glad you did it, but it brings a lot home too….
Do you ever creek solo? If so what creeks?
I've done it on a couple of times on the Tellico, Johnnies , Roaring, Richland numerous times, even a good run sucked; I would rather boat with friends. Boating with friends is where it's at. But I'll admit it, when you need a fix, you need a fix. I always thought you needed 3 in a party, One to hold the rope, another to clip it to the body.
At what height (waterfall) do you feel the freefall gets a little nutty and maybe less controlled?
After Looking Glass…I would say 40 ft, my back now limits me to the 20 ft range hell even Baby Falls on river left hurts now. Anything over 40, I feel you are little bit of a white rat in your own case study.
Approx what year did you start Creeking?
1991-The Narrows of the Green (Green Summer, 200%), is the when the bug bit, I was boating Class III-IV until then, Terry Smith called me up, Everything in the gorge opened my eyes, I was scared to death, said I would never come back, got to the take out ,and couldn't wait to go back. It also showed me that their were others who were into Creeking too. Physco lead us on that one, and I got in with a great group of boaters, who were happy to have new meat. Bear really opened my eyes too a few months later. Ron Steward, Woody, Risa and Doug Wellman lead me on that one at high water. It was like swallowing the pill in the movie "Matrix"
What was the first kayak you ever owned?
Perception Mirage 1, YES there was a Mirage II, and I thought the Dancer's were too short!
How did you get into kayaking?
Two reasons really,First of all was for the sex, I mean who hasn't had a path beaten down to their door by kayak groupies. It is at the point now I can't leave the boat on the car in the driveway, without someone knocking on the door.
The second reason I was a raft guide on the Ocoee, after two years I got so burned out on taking touroids. I would look over and see kayakers smiling. I felt like the kid who couldn't come out and play. I knew it was what I wanted to do. I bought a set up from a yuppie who was getting out of the sport and didn't look back. I also saw a National Geographic run of a sic run of some British guys running rivers in Nepal. I was glued to the T.V. After that William Nealy's book KAYAK! was read almost every night before I went to sleep for years after that.
Did you have any heroes growing up that you looked up to for their creeking/riverrunning abilities?
Only one: DOUG WELLMAN His boating did his talking, he was so smooth. He made his own paddles, helmets, and even made his own log cabin. I learned from Doug that when outfitting a boat, you could show craftsmanship, instead showing someone you knew 101 uses for duct tape. Doug is the poster child of a gentleman on and off the river. While others were bragging on the bank, Doug was in his boat at the bottom of the drop waiting on the group. He was definitely my role model.
Who are some of your heroes in the Creeking arena today?
Louie! You been on BT lately? My hats off to you , Ted Hayes and Lance Jones, for not missing a beat, and helping protect the runs , and cleaning the wood etc, it takes more than being in your boat to be a good paddler.
What are some things that may have drawn you towards Creeking when you were in your developmental stages?
It was pushing the envelope, and still is. I loved and still do love new runs, even if it's new to me. Catching the last eddy above a sic drop, will always be better, than the latest move at Rock Island. Although Rock Island keeps the creeks less populated.
Why kayaking over climbing, soccer, golf, etc.?
Because anyone can play golf or soccer and golf sucks. I can't see climbing a rock either, not when I can paddle over it. One track mind I guess?
Would you classify your development as attending the school of hard knocks or did you develop with patience waiting till you felt totally prepared mentally to run class V?
Hard Knocks. I remember Roger Scott pulling me over to the side one day in his store, I was in there a lot always asking questions so I could learn more. Anyway, he pulls me over to the side and warned me of the consequences of what would happen to my body in later years. I think my wrist was in a splint at the time? I just grinned at him. Last year I went back to his store and told him was right. This time he grinned back at me. We had a good laugh.
What ways/things should advancing boaters work on to improve skills that will benefit them on Class V creeks and rapids?
I think what Bailey Johnson told me fits perfect." Run Class III lines in Class V, and run Class V lines in Class III" Practice this as much as you can. I still do. It will prepare you without the penalty points when learning, and when you do run the Class V, you will find the needed route quicker.
What advice do you have for next generation's boaters who want to explore the arenas you dwelled in?
If doesn't feel right walk it, it will be there tomorrow, and if it isn't …well a lot bigger things just happened, and it will be more important than whitewater.
What has helped you to progress safely to more difficult water? Any advice?
Find a tight knit of guys, with the right chemistry, that each have their own set of Creeking skills, you will feed off each other. It doesn't matter if you boat class II or Class VI, this will always be true.
Did you have any sponsors? In what ways has being sponsored helped/hindered your continuous development as a creeker?
Yes, I did. It wasn't worth it for me. It leaded to burn out and unneeded pressures. Boating should be fun. I would rather paddle what I want, with who I want, and what gear I want. I got a boat awhile back, when I finally made my mind up to start boating again to stay in shape. It was nice to look at other manufactures and get what I liked. Very pleasant experience with no stress. I'd rather save my money, or better yet go to the GAF sale or Gearswap on BT and find someone getting out of the sport, and get their nice stuff then play politics.
How do you address doubts and fears while on difficult whitewater?
If I don't see me mentally running the rapid first, I walk it. Also I know less than 15-20 seconds if it is a go in my mind. I'll try to find a similar line on another run or rapid and practice the move until I have it down pat, then go back to the rapid I walked and nail it. I think the 15-20 second rule also keeps the party moving, either run it or walk it. I hate waiting around while a debate on a line is going. Talking is for the takeout. Most creekin is in the winter and you are burning daylight.
Also know that life is short and enjoy the time you have now, I'd rather buy the farm on a creek run or get shot by jealous husband when I'm 90, then have not experienced all the different runs I've seen and experienced, and wondered "what if".
What do you do while not boating to condition yourself to be able to perform at a high level: (strength training, stretching, yoga, etc.)
Eating right, getting the proper amount of sleep. #@#* you can tell I'm getting older huh. I do a lot stretches for my bone spurs growing on my T-10 and T-12.The best I found is to go boat, even if its not your cup of tea. You can make even Class II hard, find a sic slot move and try it. Boating will keep you in shape for boating.
What keeps you excited about Creeking or kayaking in general?
My work with the AW Streamkeeper Project, I'm at the point now its time for others to know what we learned.
I think the next big step in kayaking; will be the transparency of information. A good example of this how Lance Jones and his team in Arkansas have the local rain gauges dialed in. They know before hand, and will have shuttle run, and wait for the creek to come up and then go boat. On the other hand we don't a 1/10th of the Walden's Ridge river gauges, for example in Tennessee tied in on the AW site at all, let along rain gauges. Imagine the whole country tied-in. This is just one of things that comes to mind. I remember making drives to a creek, and finding out there wasn't enough water. I can't wait to see the runs light up on the AW site.
Would you please provide a useful tip for creekboaters?
Go clean-up the creeks, even if it's just the put-in or takeout. It is good P.R. for our sport. Go meet the locals, cut the trees out, and fix the gauges. Post as much accurate information as you can, make it as accurate as possible, post it on BT for peer review. During the off season, take someone who has less boating skills out on a easier run, you might find a new paddling partner, it is how Jim Little and I found each other. It's better to brag about how many different runs you made then what runs you made. It's fun to hear someone brag at the camp fire about a run, and then you say "Yep I ran that one too" without saying anything else. Taking an up and coming boater out will get you on different runs, and in turn that will give you the experience, to help you read water better. Reading water better will keep you healthy. Also during the off season learn repelling and bomb-proof rescue skills, and do this with your posse of creekin partners, nothing makes me sicker than seeing some stud, who throws a throw bag like my little 5 year old girl. When I was raft guiding, during our off time, we set up a tire swing, and would try to nail it thru the tire while it was swinging. I didn't know at the time, but it was perfect practice for Creeking. We would also set up Z-drags and move the raft van, it was excellent practice. One other thing, not all the best gear comes off the shelf, go make some, it will fit your needs a lot better.
And join AW!
Any taboos or advice?
Purchase a helmet, paddle and throw bag you can't afford. Leave the cheap gear for someone else. Then take your time on the rest of the gear. Purchase a rescue vest and now how to use it. Please join AW, if you boat any kind of whitewater, even flat-water, this is important, land owner issues are going to be a very big deal in the next ten years. Most important, enjoy your first couple of years when learning to boat, it will be you're most memorable. Take your time.
Ben, thanks for the hard work, and keep the creekin torch lit!
Mark Cumnock
Side note for this questionaire: I have too much respect for this man to put all the questions in the past tense as they are presented above. All the questions were originally worded as "Do" and switched to "Did" by the interviewee upon submittal.
Thanks for taking the time to answer everything with so much useful info. sincerely,ben